Uphill Racers

Go Back   Uphill Racers > Technical > Rules & Reg's
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Downloads Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 18-04-16, 17:34
redturner37's Avatar
redturner37 redturner37 is offline
Senior Citizen
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,237
redturner37 has a spectacular aura about redturner37 has a spectacular aura about redturner37 has a spectacular aura about
Why rely on the MSA seing this Jeff, it's you who has the problem, not them. Write to them and explain the best that you can, then at the next meeting where a car like yours has a ROPS which you feel isn't correct, then PROTEST. If you knew his engine was oversize you wouldnt hesitate to ensure they were stopped from running in the same class as you.....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 18-04-16, 17:55
david.seaton's Avatar
david.seaton david.seaton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: scottish orders
Posts: 502
david.seaton will become famous soon enough david.seaton will become famous soon enough
I can see exactly where Jeff is coming from - protests, whether justified or not, only create ill feeling with other competitors.
I do not feel it is up to us to police the actions of officials.
Fair enough with an oversize engine which is not readily visible, but something like a ROPS only needs looked at from outside.
I am a bit surprised that something important from a safety angle is overlooked - what would happen to the scrutineer who passed it if somebody was killed in an accident because the ROPS failed, and he had not noticed it did not comply.
__________________
Speakman Trophy - Doune 2011 - Best prepared car
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 18-04-16, 18:05
jeffwiltshire's Avatar
jeffwiltshire jeffwiltshire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kent
Posts: 703
jeffwiltshire will become famous soon enough
To my mind there is no advantage to having a ROPS which doesn't comply (maybe a few Kg but I could eat less pies and have my own advantage!). There is probable no real safety advantage in 99.999% of accidents either so I don't feel a moral imperative to protest another competitor.

I do think that the MSA should police their own rules though, I really don't see why I need a better ROPS as a road-going vehicle in Sprints than a car which is racing.
__________________
Zeus MR1500T
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18-04-16, 19:01
Lionheart's Avatar
Lionheart Lionheart is offline
Very Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 96
Lionheart is on a distinguished road
At least two cars at a recent event wouldn't have passed latest regs, I'm tempted to bring out ours and see if it can still get in...
__________________
'Winging it'
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18-04-16, 20:14
jeffwiltshire's Avatar
jeffwiltshire jeffwiltshire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kent
Posts: 703
jeffwiltshire will become famous soon enough
Well if it is going to be a rule that isn't enforced, why not. In fact you could do it as a form of protest against the change in the rules....
__________________
Zeus MR1500T
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18-04-16, 20:22
autosportdev autosportdev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Somerton, Somerset
Posts: 203
autosportdev is on a distinguished road
There is an advantage to be gained from a ROPS that doesn't meet the regs. The money you have spent on making yours comply could have been spent on performance upgrades.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18-04-16, 22:07
jeffwiltshire's Avatar
jeffwiltshire jeffwiltshire is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kent
Posts: 703
jeffwiltshire will become famous soon enough
Thanks, makes me feel so much better !
__________________
Zeus MR1500T
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 19-04-16, 11:58
RennyT RennyT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 314
RennyT is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by david.seaton View Post
I can see exactly where Jeff is coming from - protests, whether justified or not, only create ill feeling with other competitors.
I do not feel it is up to us to police the actions of officials.
Fair enough with an oversize engine which is not readily visible, but something like a ROPS only needs looked at from outside..
It is not always that easy David. With many of the kit cars, you cannot clearly see the mountings at the lower end of the rear braces. However, they should be running in the right direction
Quote:
Originally Posted by david.seaton View Post
I am a bit surprised that something important from a safety angle is overlooked - what would happen to the scrutineer who passed it if somebody was killed in an accident because the ROPS failed, and he had not noticed it did not comply.
David, the responsibility lies with the competitor, not the Scrutineer
Quote:
J3.1.1. The fact of obtaining a Scrutineer’s approval at
pre-event scrutiny does not indicate that the Scrutineer is accepting any responsibility for the safety or the roadworthiness of the vehicle, nor does it indicate that the vehicle complies in all respects with the Regulations. Please note that pre-event scrutineering or logbook inspection by a scrutineer is only a spot check of a limited number of key safety and eligibility features
of a vehicle’s condition. Alone it will not guarantee that the vehicle meets all applicable regulations or standards.
However, I also want to be able to sleep at night, so do as thorough a job of checking the car as I can given the prevailing circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redturner37 View Post
Why rely on the MSA seing this Jeff, it's you who has the problem, not them. Write to them and explain the best that you can, then at the next meeting where a car like yours has a ROPS which you feel isn't correct, then PROTEST. If you knew his engine was oversize you wouldnt hesitate to ensure they were stopped from running in the same class as you.....
The protest system is there to be used and it will bring it to a head, especially if it ends up in National Court. However, there is an alternative way; You can always contact the MSA Technical Department via technical@msauk.org and raise your concerns. The Tech Department sends a monthly bulletin to all MSA Scrutineers and could easily remind them of the specific issues with these ROPS.
__________________
Renny Thomson, MSA Scrutineer (Opinions are my own)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 19-04-16, 12:55
bentimingstrut's Avatar
bentimingstrut bentimingstrut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 309
bentimingstrut will become famous soon enough
I had a full cage fitted to my Locaterfield in 2013 & I consider it to be a major performance improvement as it imroved the chassis bracing no end. The best £900 quid I ever invested in the car to be honest.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20-04-16, 09:50
onomatopoeia's Avatar
onomatopoeia onomatopoeia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bristol-ish
Posts: 183
onomatopoeia is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by RennyT View Post
It is not always that easy David. With many of the kit cars, you cannot clearly see the mountings at the lower end of the rear braces. However, they should be running in the right direction
On my car you can see very little of the cage at all as it is all glassed in. Only the diagonal is visible.

Been a few years since I've competed, but no scrutineer has ever said anything about it.
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright© 2007-2017 www.uphillracers.com