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  #21  
Old 05-08-15, 06:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson View Post
I don't see a current requirement for all drivers to be scrutineered sat in the car with helmet & belts tightened. I have seen a driver pulled after first practice but only because the scrutineers happened to see the car on track and spotted the problem.
But with the compulsory FHR for next year. Things have to change. And again, when a car turns up on the start line, how do the officials know which drivers to turn away because they aren't wearing their FHR. Not to.mention wether it's being worn properly.

Who is.liable in the event of an accident if they were allowed to compete with incorrectly fitted or absent FHR?
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  #22  
Old 05-08-15, 09:04
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Originally Posted by grahamb View Post
Who is.liable in the event of an accident if they were allowed to compete with incorrectly fitted or absent FHR?
My 2p is that it should be the competitor. If the FHR has been presented at scruitineering and passed by a technical official with the correct training to identify its suitability for the event, the onus then shifts to the competitor to use it correctly.

Our competitors are adults and should be expected to take a degree of responsibility for themselves. The marshals are not their mothers and should not be placed in that position.
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  #23  
Old 05-08-15, 11:02
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Originally Posted by Brakedisc View Post
Can you explain to a layman why we allow certain categories to risk life and limb with little in the way of protection yet others in much safer vehicles have to conform to every rule going?
I would suspect that a "layman" wouldn't have the first idea about the safety rules in the MSA Blue Book and would therefore be totally ignorant of any issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grahamb View Post
But with the compulsory FHR for next year. Things have to change. And again, when a car turns up on the start line, how do the officials know which drivers to turn away because they aren't wearing their FHR. Not to.mention wether it's being worn properly.
I would have thought any driver who isn't wearing an FHR in a class where it is mandated will be stopped from running. This will be the responsibility of the scrutineers so will will have to be posted in the assembly area to ensure the regulations are followed.

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Originally Posted by onomatopoeia View Post
My 2p is that it should be the competitor. If the FHR has been presented at scruitineering and passed by a technical official with the correct training to identify its suitability for the event, the onus then shifts to the competitor to use it correctly.

Our competitors are adults and should be expected to take a degree of responsibility for themselves. The marshals are not their mothers and should not be placed in that position.
There doesn't appear to be anything in the proposed regulations that states that the FHR must be used correctly just that one must be fitted to the helmet. In any case I don't think that the task of checking FHRs would be down to the marshals but MUST be a responsibility of the scrutineers.
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  #24  
Old 05-08-15, 11:31
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I used my FHR for the first time at Castle Hillclimb last weekend. At scrutineering I mentioned to the scrutineer (a young lady) that I would be using a HANS device. She was very good -

- She checked the HANS posts on my crash helmet (correct standard, clips working, etc);
- She examined the FHR device for any damage or fraying on the tethers;
- She and her colleague then asked a number of questions - 'are the seat belts suitable for FHR? how far up the seat are you? are the shoulder straps at the correct angle from the horizontal?'

Credit where it is due: I was impressed ..... I think the scrutineers are switched on to the fact that FHRs will become a standard part of their safety checks and from my limited experience they seem very knowledgeable about FHRs.
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  #25  
Old 05-08-15, 12:10
Manic Muppet Manic Muppet is offline
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Originally Posted by onomatopoeia View Post
Our competitors are adults and should be expected to take a degree of responsibility for themselves.
I would really hope so, I was at a recent hillclimb on a warm sunny Sunday afternoon, there were 15 or so cars lined up just before the start with helmets on, gloves on, and harnesses done up and as they came up to the start line one by one 7 of them had their overalls undone and sleeves rolled up ..... need I say anymore
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  #26  
Old 05-08-15, 16:43
Brakedisc Brakedisc is offline
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"It is quite simple really. All the MSA has to show is that it took all the steps and measures that are reasonable and practicable.

Retrofitting unsuitable ROPS, belts and FHR to period defined vehicles is neither reasonable nor practicable. "


But they haven't taken all the steps because if someone turns up in their modified Cateringvan different rules apply. Safety is safety so if it is good enough for one class it should be the same for all classes. Sadly it isn't and that is what is wrong with the rules.

We also have seen another precedent set recently where people can take any old single seater or clubmans car, bolt in an engine producing twice the horsepower, fit massive wheels and tyres and run it on the ROPS that was used in period rather than what is current.

There are loopholes everywhere and all I am suggesting is that there should not be. Safety is safety.
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  #27  
Old 05-08-15, 17:21
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Just at the moment we seem to have a good population of civil servants!
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  #28  
Old 07-08-15, 15:37
Davidb832 Davidb832 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamV View Post
I used my FHR for the first time at Castle Hillclimb last weekend. At scrutineering I mentioned to the scrutineer (a young lady) that I would be using a HANS device. She was very good -

- She checked the HANS posts on my crash helmet (correct standard, clips working, etc);
- She examined the FHR device for any damage or fraying on the tethers;
- She and her colleague then asked a number of questions - 'are the seat belts suitable for FHR? how far up the seat are you? are the shoulder straps at the correct angle from the horizontal?'

Credit where it is due: I was impressed ..... I think the scrutineers are switched on to the fact that FHRs will become a standard part of their safety checks and from my limited experience they seem very knowledgeable about FHRs.
Was anything said about your adapter bracket for the belts?
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  #29  
Old 07-08-15, 15:58
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Was anything said about your adapter bracket for the belts?

No comment from the scrutineer - I did point out that I had moved the anchor points for the shoulder belts to move them closer together. They looked at it and the bolts used etc, but were quite happy.

Since then I have modified it slightly so it is now underneath the boot tonneau and the plate is now in tension - difficult to explain - I will post a photo of the Mark II version.
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  #30  
Old 07-08-15, 16:20
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FHR / HANS plate Caterham 7 (Imperial Chassis)

As you can see from the photo below I listened to the sensible feedback about turning the plate the other way around so that is in 'tension' - I had to reduce the width a little to avoid it fouling on the seat when it is pushed right back.

This Mk II version also allows me to reinstate the poppers for the drivers' tonneau.

HANS Mk II.jpg
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