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  #11  
Old 01-08-15, 16:03
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Lionheart Lionheart is offline
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It's that the previous recommendation will become a requirement. Tthe current bar met the previous, previous recommendation - it is 21 years old. Will see if we can get it out once more before the year's end then gracefully retire it (maybe classic/historic status one day!?), as I won't be cutting it up etc... Modifying it, turning it into a 'not really a road going' road going race car.
Whilst understanding the new appreciation of the dangers of Motorsport Im not keen on retrospective regulations and if we do have them where does one draw the line in time. Just can't see an ERA or Seven Special or Morgan with a compliant roll bar!!??
Very luck as we others in the stable and Race bikes on the hill which escapes this sort of regulation.
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Last edited by Lionheart; 01-08-15 at 16:31.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-15, 20:45
Lawrie C Lawrie C is offline
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What's going through my mind, is that at an event, I take the risk that I might be seriously injured or killed. The recent changes to the regulations don't make me feel any more comfortable.

But I appreciate that those making the rules don't want to miss something that could have prevented a serious injury next year.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-15, 10:08
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Steve Wilkinson Steve Wilkinson is offline
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I don't see a current requirement for all drivers to be scrutineered sat in the car with helmet & belts tightened. I have seen a driver pulled after first practice but only because the scrutineers happened to see the car on track and spotted the problem.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-15, 15:25
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The ROPS requirements under K 1.6.1 a) for cars under 2,000cc are not too onerous.
You just need a basic roll bar/ cage complying with drawings K1 or K2.
These bars /cages only have rear stays, no diagonal and do not make reference to the drawing K 60(ii) or K 31 therefore the 50mm clearance would appear to be not mandatory.

If the vehicle is greater than 2000cc then the requirement is a bit more stringent especially for sports cars where a full cage to K3 or K4 or a bar with diagonal to K60(i) with clearances to K 60(ii) and K31 would be required.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-15, 17:04
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I have slowly been coming to the same conclusion, at least as far as the Blue Book is concerned. In the paddock it's the K60(ii) that the scurtineers are saying will be compulsory. In the Book K60(ii) is for over 2000cc. I know it wouldn't be much use if a bar was low but looking at the Book I can find not a height requirement for K1 and K2 so it seems if a bar is there it will meet the book? In 1.6.2 (the alternative reg to meet) the requirement is a K1 bar with a diagonal and a min height from the seat base of 92cm, so not much higher than average person would be or similar/ lower than a tall person with there helmet on.
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  #16  
Old 04-08-15, 09:12
RennyT RennyT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakedisc View Post
So why do you let cars run in that state? Just look at some photos from Doune for the evidence.

The whole safety issue needs addressing and as a senior official you should be taking a stance against the jobsworths at the MSA who bring out the rules.

I suggest that if ROPS are a life saver all cars should have them and be to the current standard on size and material. This business of cars from the past running no ROPS or small diameter thinwall tubing is a nonsense and if you add in the structures you get away with if a certificate is issued it becomes crazy.

The same goes for head restraints. Again if it is such a life saver why do drivers of cars of a certain vintage not need them?
We often advise drivers that they need to do something about roll cage height. Would you prefer that we issue a safety reject note and ask the Clerk not to let them run?

Unfortunately, I'm not on any of the MSA Committees for Speed, Race, or Safety that draw up the Regulations. It's the Clubs and Regional Associations that support nominations to the Committees.

As for why Period Defined cars don't need FHRs; it's simple, they don't need seat belts either, so FHR would not work.
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  #17  
Old 04-08-15, 16:15
Brakedisc Brakedisc is offline
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" Would you prefer that we issue a safety reject note and ask the Clerk not to let them run?"

Not my call, it is your call and turning a blind eye is not an option when safety is at stake.

No ROPS , no seat belts and no FHRs required in period cars will come back and bite the MSA big time. It just confirms that safety is not the reason for implementing these rules.

At a time when motorsport, especially in Scotland, is under so much public scrutiny skimping on safety is not an option. We all should be trying to ensure the sport is as safe as possible because accidents will always happen and when they do it is better to know that everything has been done than think "I wish we had done more".
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  #18  
Old 04-08-15, 18:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakedisc View Post

No ROPS , no seat belts and no FHRs required in period cars will come back and bite the MSA big time. It just confirms that safety is not the reason for implementing these rules.

.
Are you suggesting that the MSA ban all period defined vehicles from the sport?

ROPS,belts and FHR can only be fitted where the fundamental structure of the car allows. fitting these to an unsuitable structure could actually make the car more dangerous. The same applies to using FHR in road cars, they can only be used with full harness.

Perhaps the only cars allowed should be purpose built modern racers, no wait a mo, these are too fast, so we should not allow them either.
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  #19  
Old 04-08-15, 21:14
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I am suggesting that the sport is under serious threat from public scrutiny.

Can you explain to a layman why we allow certain categories to risk life and limb with little in the way of protection yet others in much safer vehicles have to conform to every rule going? Could you explain it to a government department? Stand in a courtroom and explain it? I hope there are people who can because I certainly can't.
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  #20  
Old 04-08-15, 21:54
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It is quite simple really. All the MSA has to show is that it took all the steps and measures that are reasonable and practicable.

Retrofitting unsuitable ROPS, belts and FHR to period defined vehicles is neither reasonable nor practicable.
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