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Old 12-06-17, 21:10
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Sunroof?

What are the regs to look at regarding a webasto type full length sunroof on a specialist/series production sports car?

Am I right in thinking the area where the sunroof is will need to be blanked over with a panel?
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Old 12-06-17, 22:46
Lolat492 Lolat492 is offline
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I hill climbed my 1973 Porsche 911 with a fabric sunroof with a log book etc for 14 years with no probs. It has a 6 point cage inside and I think it should really have a cross diagonal over your head incase of inversion and the obstacles penetrating the cloth into he cabin.
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Old 13-06-17, 20:31
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Cheers for that info, was that in roadgoing class?

Hadn't thought about having the diagonal above the head, that makes a lot of sense.
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Old 14-06-17, 19:01
Lolat492 Lolat492 is offline
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Yes, road going class on list 1A tyres and then list 1B etc, driven to the hills and driven back.
A lot of modern tin-top cages have a 'roof' diagonal in them now, esp if it is a welded-in cage.
My 911's is a bolt-in cage.
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Old 19-06-17, 11:37
RennyT RennyT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie2003 View Post
What are the regs to look at regarding a webasto type full length sunroof on a specialist/series production sports car?

Am I right in thinking the area where the sunroof is will need to be blanked over with a panel?
Can you give more details of the car: Is it Road Going Series Production , or Specialist? The requirements are different

Quote:
Safety
10.1.1. Roll-over Safety Bars K.1 to 1.8, except for cars
of Periods A – E (Nomenclature and Definitions).
10.1.2. Road-Going Series Production, K.1.6.1 or K.1.6.2
recommended.
10.1.3. Road-Going Specialist Production, Modified
Series Production Cars and Modified Specialist
Production Cars must comply with K.1.6.1 or K.1.6.2,
with the exception of Standard Cars as defined in 11.9
where K1.6.1 or K.1.6.2 is recommended.
In essence, if Series Production; ROPS is recommended. If Specialist Production; ROPS is required.
__________________
Renny Thomson, MSA Scrutineer (Opinions are my own)
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Old 19-06-17, 15:21
Lolat492 Lolat492 is offline
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I bolted my 6 point Safety Devices cage into my road going over 2000cc class 911 because I felt safer with it.
I think the same class today still does not need it, possibly why from 1994 to 2004, when I retired the car, the cage was deemed ok.
Having a cage is a good feeling.
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Old 19-06-17, 23:30
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RennyT View Post
Can you give more details of the car: Is it Road Going Series Production , or Specialist? The requirements are different

In essence, if Series Production; ROPS is recommended. If Specialist Production; ROPS is required.
The car in question was a Ginetta G15 with a full length Webasto that a friend was looking at and we knew about the specialist production ROPS requirement as that had been confirmed last year by the MSA.

But having looked again at the classes for Gurston, where he was looking to run it, he's decided not to go for it as they now only run:
Class 4c Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars, any capacity
and
Class 11 Modified Specialist Production Cars, any capacity.

So with such a stupid class structure, unless you go for a big engine Caterfield type of car or a similar BEC you haven't got much of a chance to run competitively any more. Only Class 7 at Gurston has a smaller engine cc class now.

Real shame as if they'd had an up to 1400cc car engine class like they run in the ASWMC along with putting the BEC's in to a seperate class like the ASWMC, then the smaller capacity cars would have somewhere to run and they might even get some more varied car types entering events.

But hey it looks like Gurston just want you to have to run a big engined or BEC car and that means it most probably ends up as one of the caterfield types and a class that just has them can end up pretty boring for the specatators, as all of the cars end up looking pretty much the same.

Last edited by Teddie2003; 20-06-17 at 00:04.
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Old 20-06-17, 06:55
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Adam Adam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddie2003 View Post
The car in question was a Ginetta G15 with a full length Webasto that a friend was looking at and we knew about the specialist production ROPS requirement as that had been confirmed last year by the MSA.

But having looked again at the classes for Gurston, where he was looking to run it, he's decided not to go for it as they now only run:
Class 4c Roadgoing Specialist Production Cars, any capacity
and
Class 11 Modified Specialist Production Cars, any capacity.

So with such a stupid class structure, unless you go for a big engine Caterfield type of car or a similar BEC you haven't got much of a chance to run competitively any more. Only Class 7 at Gurston has a smaller engine cc class now.

Real shame as if they'd had an up to 1400cc car engine class like they run in the ASWMC along with putting the BEC's in to a seperate class like the ASWMC, then the smaller capacity cars would have somewhere to run and they might even get some more varied car types entering events.

But hey it looks like Gurston just want you to have to run a big engined or BEC car and that means it most probably ends up as one of the caterfield types and a class that just has them can end up pretty boring for the specatators, as all of the cars end up looking pretty much the same.
If people enter then the classes get bigger and it's more worthwhile splitting them. The reason it's like that is because there we weekend s with 1 car per class, which isn't brilliant.
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Old 20-06-17, 08:50
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If people enter then the classes get bigger and it's more worthwhile splitting them. The reason it's like that is because there we weekend s with 1 car per class, which isn't brilliant.
Point taken, it's the "field of dreams" problem do they try and build a class with smaller engine sizes to encourage entries and hope they(competitors) arrive or build a class then if need be change to suit what arrives. A very difficult decision for the organising clubs.

But it's been quite a long term problem at lots of venues/championships, not just Gurston, the smaller capacities classes breaks have been reduced at a lot of places around the country. Then you think why turn up when you're on a hiding to nothing unless you've got a BEC or larger capacity car engine.

Maybe I have a "rose tinted" glasses look at it, but there are a lot of cars that can run with smaller engines and be good fun to drive without having to have a huge amount of power.
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Old 20-06-17, 13:19
Teddie2003 Teddie2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolat492 View Post
I bolted my 6 point Safety Devices cage into my road going over 2000cc class 911 because I felt safer with it.
I think the same class today still does not need it, possibly why from 1994 to 2004, when I retired the car, the cage was deemed ok.
Having a cage is a good feeling.
Yes agree with that "Having a cage is a good feeling". My ASWMC Road Going class Imp had a full cage fitted even though it wasn't mandatory and my Clan had a full steel cage fitted by the previous owner when I got it, I just added doorbars.

Even though with a Clan you can just have a GRP/Bonded Rope cage fitted as that's an approved by the MSA option. While my Davrian was taken to Tim @ Darrian and had a full bonded in cage fitted when I had the roof/hole where a webasto was fitted replaced, even though that wasn't mandatory at that time.
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